TT 8S Navigation Advice

1. offizieller Beitrag
    • Offizieller Beitrag

    Eine Frage hat uns über den ACI aus Brasilien erreicht. Kennt sich jemand damit aus?

    Hi my name is Rodrigo and I live in Brasilien, in Curitiba. I have asked a friend from ACI (Thorsten Schache) and he pointed me to your club for a advise, if possible, and if is not bother you. I own a 2015 TT (8S), navigation ready (7UH), with virtual cockpit, and I am trying to install
    de navigation and can not buy the activation from Audi here.

    The car came from factory with 5F unit 8S0.035.028.A (I saw some Ingolstadt maps on it after the right vcds coding). As I can not find ROW maps around here, I bought another 5F unit (8S0.035.045A) with the Brasilien maps on it. I took to my dealer to release the component protection and it is all fine, but they told me for the complete activation a sd card from Audi is needed and I can not buy it from here.

    So I ask is possible for you guys to point me where can I buy it? Or if there is other solution.

    Danke schön
    Rodrigo
    -----------------------
    Das ist jetzt weniger ein technisches Problem denke ich. Erinnert mich daran, dass es früher bei vielen PNAs nicht möglich war, Karten eines anderen Kontinents auf ein Gerät zu bekommen.

    Servus,

    Herbert Mauerer
    M-HM 4321
    TTS QP
    scubablau :cool:

    Hi, the 8S0.035.028.A unit is the >multimedia only< controller unit, no navigation at all in my opinion.
    The 8S0.035.045A is a whole kit (controller incl. wiring) for cars on the American continent.

    I do not understand your problem exactly, because your explanation is a bit weird.

    You said your dealer released the component protection.
    My interpretation here is: Your dealer activated and registered the new unit within the Audi registration server.

    You said: It's all fine
    Q: Is the navigation working, if all is fine?

    Is it just the card with the map data which is missed?
    If so why can't you buy an original SD Card with Brazillian Maps at your dealership in Brazil?
    Somehow strange isn't it?

    There is no such thing as a specific "activation" card.

    edit What your dealer could have meant: The map data on SD cards came with digital certificates and checksums for copy protection.
    Those certificates are exchanged between the card and the controller unit every time the unit is booting.
    That is also the reason, why no raw- or free data materials could be loaded into the unit.
    All car makers do this nowadays. The reason is simple. They use closed proprietary systems to create a huge after market for themselves.
    No new cards, no POIs, not the simplest features without paying them a lot of money.
    The customers have to pay again & again & again.

    To get the map data card, you have to visit the Brazilian equivalent of this site:

    https://parts.audiusa.com/p/Audi_2016_TT…V0051884AJ.html

    There is a part number - but for Canada, Mexico & US only.
    You have to get the Brazilian part number, which should be no problem at all to get it via your dealership.

    That cards have a ridiculous pricing (even more if you have to update it every two or three years).
    285 US $ is a rip off.

    Good morning, I am deeply sorry for not have seen this post before and for not to have made my doubt clear enough (maybe because it make a long time since I do not write in other language, forgive me).

    My 2015 TT came out from factory with navigation preparation (PR 7UH) that includes in my case virtual cockpit, oem GPS antenna on the roof, MMI touch, SDS and all the wiring.

    As I wanted to activate the navigation so I took the car to my local dealer and was told that "as my TT has a sd-card based 5F unit, not HDD as the PR 7UG TTs, my car could only navegate in Germany" and they send me back home...

    Because of that I decided to make it happen by my own.

    So, I did some research and was able to recode the 5F unit and virtual cockpit.

    The navigation was released but the maps shown were from Germany, and it worked for about one minute and has blocked, displaying a message that the navigation is not availible.

    Then, as a B plan, I bought another 5F unit from a wrecked 2015 TT with 7UG PR (with the HDD) and installed it on my car (plug and play, all the conections are the same).

    As expected, the component protection was activated the moment I turned the new 5F on and the sound from FM and other medias were into 'mute'.

    But, the navigation function worked 100% fine, perfect, with SDS!!

    So, I went back to the dealer to release the component protection, what was sucessfull, all worked "almost fine" not all fine as I wrote before, because the navigation began to be blocked about the same one minute after working.

    And the car asks for activation...

    A friend that worked on Audi plant told me that this message from the blocking navigation is due a needed software update to "change" my PR 7UH to 7UG. (here your tip about an upgrade for the virtual cockpit can do good!)

    So, that is the problem and there is no way to buy any sd-card or DVD to update or activate the navigation from Audi here, maybe in the future. All the sofwares here are availible for other models with past generation MMIs (MIB I).

    As the main problem seems to be software related, that is why I stared asking friends to point me the direction to the update media for the TT.


    Thanks a lot for the time and patience!

    I doing this for the fun of it! And the best is that I am actually learning something on the way!

    And whatever I could do to add in the forum knowledgement - if it is possible - you can count on me.

    Best regars!

    Hi Rodrigo,
    I think that the general problem here is, that Audi is not generally ready for upgrading the navigation system, if it is upgraded from the
    multimedia system to the navigation system.
    When the sales of the 8S was started, there was no chance to get this upgrade because they didn't have planed it.
    I consider this as one case of the typical arrogance from the car manufacturer against their customers.
    "If you don't buy navigation straight from the factory - your problem".

    Another problem which cause the common trouble is such case (as yours) has to be seen in the "closed system" to block all third party
    after market business.
    This time it's absolutely programmatic to make everything as complicated as possible.
    In my opinion absolute nonsense in more than one point.
    1. Every system could and will be hacked in time (depends on the effort and customer demands)
    (Recently we've hacked a Tesla and stopped all spying communications towards the factory
    -which to be honest, causing massive repressions from the car maker)
    2. Those integrated systems will never receive appropriate updates in time.
    3. Therefore all external communications are at serious stake in terms of security and privacy.
    (Dozens of scientific articles about hacked cars even to that point where hackers take over control about almost every system.)

    Anyway, I've no satisfying idea to help you out with your current problem.
    But I've picked up following rumours:
    The update from "plain" multimedia infotainment systems to navigation systems are not available in all markets or for the new systems right at this moment. But the good news (everybody) is, that they're (Audi) seem to be working on it.
    There is a statement which was made at the beginning of this year, that this upgrade should be ready during summer or end of summer this year.
    I do not know if this will apply for the south American market.

    IHMO the update should be also working with a VAS Testing unit or a specific prepared Laptop via the OBD-II / CAN-Bus interface.
    Although the upgrade via a SD-Card with a piece of loader software
    which is recognized by the unit on boot up is the more comfortable and simpler way.

    Did you ever have tried to get in touch directly with the Ingolstadt support about this matter?

    As from my viewpoint, the problem seems to be as following:

    To get any navigational dataset working on the navigation system, this datasets are locked with so called certificates.
    The main unit must be able to recognize those certificates.
    To get this from a metaphoric viewpoint:
    Every navigation dataset for every country or region brings it's own key (certificate).
    Every navigation system for certain countries or regions is coded with a specific lock matching the key(s) (certificate-s).

    The upgrade you mentioned contains a new lock (or locks) to match your desired navigation dataset.
    And it seems that exactly this is currently not ready for your country.

    Some more imaginable background:
    If every update or change of a navigation system could only be performed via a registration server at Audi,
    this procedure would be an adequate theft protection, because stolen units would be blacklisted
    and therefore blocked from working in other cars (which would be a good thing - if the procedures strictly working so)

    I hope that some of my thoughts could help you on the way to a working unit.
    Let us know how all this turned out

    Best regards TRT

    Hallo,

    also verstehe ich das richtig:

    Sein TT wurde mit sogenanntem Connectivity-Paket (so heißt es bei uns in Österreich) ausgeliefert (Navi-Vorbereitung, sprich alle notwendigen Bauteile sind verbaut, lediglich die "Software" fehlt...)
    Um es auf ein vollwertiges Navi upzudaten inkl. Kartenmaterial, ist er zu seinem Händler gefahren und diese sagten ihm, dass dies nicht möglich sei? In Folge dessen hat er aus einem anderen TT (welcher navi ab werk hatte) die notwendigen Bauteile in seinen TT umgebaut und nun weigert sich quasi das System zu arbeiten, in seinem Fall ca. nach 1 Minute Laufzeit?

    Bin nicht der hellste bei Englisch & hoffe ich habe das so in Etwa richtig interpretiert,
    ansonsten möge mich jemand korrigieren. Ich helfe auch gerne weiter wenn ich mal konkret weiss was gemeint ist.

    LG
    Neven

    Nope. Da ist zu seinem Baujahr oder besser Modelljahr eben nichts vorneweg verbaut.
    Ein Upgrade war ursprünglich nie vorgesehen (afaik).
    Beim normalen Multimediasystem hast du ja auch keine GPS Antenne - ergo passen auch die Kabelsätze nicht, bzw. fehlen)
    (War auch beim 8V nicht so)
    Er hat das System selbst nachgerüstet. (Aus Europa gekauft)
    Der Händler hat das System dann auf seinem Fahrzeug freigeschaltet.
    Aber die Systeme auf dem Amerikanischen Kontinent unterscheiden sich von unseren hier.
    (Satelliten Radio, Sicherheitshinweise, Radio Tuner, (weil die bei Überlandfahren auch noch viel AM hören) Kartenmaterial/Freischaltung)
    Nun fehlt ihm dazu ein Software Update, das Audi für sein Land (derzeit) nicht zur Verfügung stellt,
    weil die Möglichkeit des Upgrades bisher nicht gegeben war.
    Das Kartenmaterial hätte er auch schon, aber das System erkennt dieses derzeit nicht an.
    Das hat man nun von DRM & Co.

    Hello TRT I know exactly what it means "If you do not buy navigation straight from the factory - your problem". This is what I have felt !
    I agree that they could be more friendly with the costumers, even though we go to the dealer to buy the upgrade and when the dealer can do nothing than you go by yourself or to the third part…
    Your suggestion to get in touch directly with the Ingolstadt support about this matter is fantastic, so I will try to reach them!
    But I must emphasize the fact that my TT has everything from factory (GPS antenna, MMI Touch, and all the harness)!

    Hallo Neven und TRT, vergeben mein Kindengarden Deutsch ! Hallo nach Österreich ! Ich weiß nicht, ob mein TT die Connectivity - Paket hat, ich weiß es nur die PR 7UH hat. Vielleicht nicht , weil es keine SIM -Karten-Slot auf der 5F Einheit!

    Ich denke auch, das Problem im Zusammenhang mit Software ist!

    vielen herzlichen Dank!

    mvG
    Rodrigo

    Hi Rodrigo, don't mind about the language, although in the forum we can*t communicate with hand, feet and grimace ;)

    Maybe the following information is a bit more enlightening:

    PR-7UF is the Media System MIB-S (Standard Navigation)
    PR-7UG is MIB-H (Navigation High)
    PR-7UH is the Navigation preparation (incl. antenna an wiring)

    So far, this information is 100% valid for the Audi A3 8V which has almost all basic components identical to the TT 8S expect the integrated dashboard screen.

    If you have the PR-7UH ordered from factory or in other words already built in, OK, then Neven is right and normally you could expect a proper upgrade (for a lot of money) from the manufacturer.
    It. seems that is upgrade feature is not available right at this time, if your dealer can't help you.

    Here the note from Audi for the upgrade: (Summer 2016)

    - Only in combination with factory-fitted preparation for navigation
    - Only in combination with connectivity or media style package
    - Please note that the navigation function can only be activated by your Audi partner.
    - Additional map material is available through your Audi partner.

    This means that your car MUST be equipped with the connectivity or media style package and the navigation preparation.

    I've cross checked the Audi sites and there is only one upgrade at the moment: Art.-No. 8V0063192 This is for Europe only.

    The card data upgrades are available for two different systems within a TT 8S:
    The MIB-S and the MIB-H - BUT only for Europe at this time. (See a more confusing different statement below)
    (Could be also some sort of geographic pre-filtering from the Audi site itself)
    But I can't get any information about the Americas (North and South is normally total separated from the European market).
    I don't see any informations about Asia as well.

    Rodrigo, could you explain again, which upgrade pack you have bought?
    If it has the Art-No. above, you may have bought the wrong one not only because this upgrade is currently only working European maps.
    I suggest that the upgrade must come with the correct map material for your area.

    Now for the very confusing part:

    Audi wrote originally the following statement after a customer request similar to yours (proceed it through a translator):

    In dem Audi TT Coupé des Modelljahres 2015 ist das Connectivity-Paket eine Sonderausstattung und beinhaltet:

    (The following is contained in the connectivity package)
    - das Audi music interface
    - die Bluetooth-Schnittstelle (BT Interface)
    - das Audi MMI Touch
    - keine Navigationsvorbereitung (no navigation controller)

    Da das Audi TT Coupé keine Navigationsvorbereitung beinhaltet, wird eine Nachruestung der Navigation seitens der AUDI AG nicht
    angeboten.

    Erst Audi TT Coupé ab Modelljahr 2016 enthalten in dem Connectivity-Paket auch die Navigationsvorbereitung und somit waere dort
    eine Nachruestung moeglich.

    Q: Is your car a Model/Year 2016 ? (Usually the new Model-Year - starts after the summer holidays / approx. September)

    After further investigation the whole subject seems to be more confusing.
    Whilst for the A3 (as mentioned before) a upgrade could be done in the standard or high version, i've read in a dealer statement, that for the
    TT 8S there is only a solution for the upgrade with the "High" version (that should include a SIM-Card interface or a built in SIM. It also will include Google Earth Navigation besides the card material.

    And right before 2 minutes the latest info:
    The Software for the upgrade (MJ 2016 only) is still not ready, but the factory is working on it.

    Anyway - finally I think you should check the matter directly with your dealer and with the Audi factory.

    I would suggest to have all your part-numbers from your changed components right at hand, so you can supply the factory with the correct numbers.

    Let us know how things worked out for you.

    My opinion: This is quite some sick shit, that no real reliable information is communicated on customer requests - neither from the dealers or from the factory.


    Cheers ;)

    Hi Rodrigo :)

    Sorry for my delayed answer. Would it be possible for you, to send me your Car-Ident.-Number?
    Perhaps as a private message ? I want to check something (you can trust me, i am from Audi Austria).

    As second, could you tell me if the new unit you installed (PR 7UG with HDD) was a used one from another TT or completely new ? Your Dealer was right, the PR 7UH could not be activated currently for the whole "USA", but the 7UG should be possible as i have seen it (it exists an activation right for South-Amerika you can buy and it is for the 7UG).

    Best Regards
    Neven

    Hello Neven! Your answer was quick. Sure! Just send it ! My second 5F unit was used before, but legally bought. The CP was removed on the Audi Dealer. I have also the VIN of the "doner" : TRUAFBFV0F1012191

    Thanks a lot!

    Best Regards!

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    Hello TRT! OK!

    Thanks a lot for the infos!!

    So I have also heard here about this 2016 upgrade that the factory should be working on!

    I found a part number on the web they say in some sites that should fit the 8S with the PR 7UG, that is 8V0.051.884.BL, for the 2017 models...

    As it seems impossible to retrofit the navigation in my oem non hdd 5F unit, I have upgraded it for one that has already a HDD and SIM card built in unit.

    Yes I am checking with my local dealer, bur the problem is all dealers I have talked to, over the world (U.K., Australia, United States, some EU countries like Portugal and France and Germany also) knows very little about navigation!!


    And that Audi AG info is very confused indeed! My car is a 2015 ...

    So I am full aware that it is truly sick shit (lol) but as I said before I just doing this for the fun of it! You know that feeling of making something everybody said it was impossible!!

    Thanks again!!

    Cheers!! ;)


    Rodrigo


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